France: A Debate, A Shooting, and An Election

This will be a long posting, six charts will be posted:  two charts each for Melechon, for Macron, for Le Pen.  Once of these charts will involve an unusual asteroid that orbits in retrograde — in Jupiter’s orbit (without ever crashing into Jupiter).  This will be a most unusual pair of charts.


Melenchon photo-2

April 20th marked the date of the most recent debate and the shooting in Paris.  In a fluid race leading up to the April 23rd election, Melenchon is gaining in the polls.  April 20th is the last day in the cycle of his prior t/Moon-to-n/Sun Return.  That ‘Advanced’ chart is shown below.  It has angular features and some of them are strong.  However, a whole new cycle starts for him the next day; a t/Moon-opp-n/Sun in the 12th house.  On the surface, this does not look good.  But, in this case we have to remember that we are looking for the two best charts out of three charts.  Keep that in mind.


First, we look for angular planets in this April 20, 2017 debate/shooting chart.

  • t/Venus-n/Moon-IC opposite n/Saturn-MC; Venus denotes popularity, the n/Moon can be seen as the public that he hopes to win to his cause.  The IC indicates both endings and beginnings.  n/Saturn at the MC has historically been good for those seeking political office as it indicates stability, gravitas and cautious judgement.
  • t/Mars-Desc square t/N.Node-n/Sun;  Mars (for the debate) is “a reaching out” to others, active campaigning.  (For the shooting) t/Mars is an attack by another.  In this case the t/N.Node is the country-as-a-whole which includes its image, the government structure, the buildings and historical landscape.  (This contrasts with the Moon which represents the people collectively).

We also, for Advanced charts, consider the t/Moon, t/Sun and t/PoF.  t/Moon-opposes-n/Pluto; his rhetorical approach is well-practiced.  He will attract many with his words.  t/Sun-t/Mercury-n/PoF;  A singular theme in his messages will be pointed, concise and will change his perception in the polls.  t/PoF-n/Venus-9th;  His popularity is likely to increase as he proposes solid approaches for France’s relationship within Europe.  This is very much in contrast to Le Pen’s positions, for example.

Let us now look at his April 23rd Election-Day chart which is part of a new cycle, due to a t/Moon-opp-n/Sun in the 12th.


On this election day we find t/N.Node on the Asc., n/MC in the 11th;  N.Node represents, I believe, the French Republic and its image, government structure.  In this case, Melenchon will represent that in the public’s eye.  t/Mars in the 10th; He will be seen as fighting for the country’s values and image.  With t/Neptune-n/N.Node-Desc. he will be able to articulate an image of what France is all about.

As noted earlier, in Advanced charts we look at t/Moon, t/Sun, t/PoF even if they are not angular.   t/Moon-n/Moon (a lunar return pattern); as election day progresses, he will solidify his appeal to the people.  t/Sun-n/PoF; It seems likely that his personal image will be given a second look, he will appear more ‘international’ in stature.

All in all, this looks like a promising chart.


Macron photo-2First, we will look at the debate/shooting chart for Macron.


The first thing that I note in this chart is the advancing Asc. moving away from the n/MC point.  By election day, this will be 7 degrees behind the Ascendant.  Not good.  t/Venus-IC is a good pattern; he will find a large segment of the voting public liking him and his message.  t/Mars is near the Desc.; This indicates a strong ‘reaching out’ to the public.  But, like the n/MC-Asc., the Descendant will move further away from this Mars.  On the surface, this is a relatively mild chart.  Let us look at t/Moon, t/Sun, t/PoF.

t/Moon squares n/Uranus; Macron may repeat his earlier-life achievements as his examples of how he would lead France.  Not very crowd-rousing.  t/Sun-t/Mercury-n/Chiron-square n/Asc.;  All candidates have this t/Sun conjoining t/Mercury, so the words and messages will be pointed.  If he attacks, it will seem out of character for him and may not convey the right impression.  The link to n/Chiron may be the typical politician’s claim to be able to adjust and fix what is currently wrong within the country.  t/PoF squares n/Venus;  some of his popularity and likeability may suffer due to his age and lack of political experience.   The n/PoF broadly squares t/PoF;  when these are in hard aspect to each other, “chance and change” often becomes “chaos.”  It is likely that his message will start to fall apart.

The Election Day advanced chart is shown below.


This Advanced chart has a strong IC if we are liberal with our orbs; t/Chiron, t/Venus, t/Moon are grouped just behind the angle — but 5-to-7 degrees behind.  t/Mars is 5 degrees behind the Desc.   There is not a strong angular presence in this chart.  It is like he is running out of steam.   Let us look at t/Moon, t/Sun, t/PoF.

t/Sun is pulling ahead of Rx Mercury; his words don’t line up as well with his image. t/Moon (with t/Venus, t/Chiron) is behind the IC angle — I would see this as indicating his election efforts are ending.

This seems to be a weak chart.  It doesn’t look great for his making one of the two run-off spots if there is not someone who wins 50% of the electorate.

Le Pen

Marine Le Pen photo-2Le Pen, in this election cycle, has always been the wild card.  With all of the problems plaguing France and the EU relative to immigration, the strength of the Eurpoean Union and how well France can progress within the union, the stalled economy, and the British withdrawal from the EU, Le Pen has had plenty to talk about, plenty to take aim at as a means of attracting attention to her views.  


In Le Pen’s charts we are going to be considering something very new to most astrologers.  There exists an asteroid that has a retrograde orbit, a very rare situation.  Even more amazing is that this asteroid, 2015 BZ509, retrogrades within Jupiter’s orbit — but never collides with that giant planet.   This asteroid has two orbiting characteristics I believe.  As it passes its South Node point, just ahead of Jupiter, it passes south/below Jupiter’s path and cuts inside Jupiter’s orbit.  This ‘inner’orbital path takes less time to complete.  As it passes its North Node, it passes outside of Jupiter’s average orbital path, taking a longer time to complete.  All of this results in some signs taking two years to transit while other signs may be transited in as little as seven weeks.  2015 BZ509, its official name for now, seems to counteract, when in hard aspect to Jupiter, the large planets provision of being social, expansive, opportunity-granting and lucky.  Only when in opposition to Jupiter does 2015 BZ509 not function as a negating factor to Jupiter.  With all of that said, let us look at Le Pens charts.


I have marked the asteroids natal and transiting position in the above chart which is t/Moon-opp-n/Sun Return in the 12th house.  The theme for this Sun placement in a Return chart is “Choices.  One’s conscience says to help others.  One’s self-interests want to address personal needs first.  Balancing conflicts.  Understanding public trends, needs for one’s own future  . . .”  So, what will Le Pen do and say?  Will she shift to the high road or will she continue to push a harsh, right-wing agenda?

t/N.Node-Asc. points to addressing the needs of France and its image and place in the world and within the EU.  By itself, this doesn’t indicate a right-wing or a centrist view.  We can note t/Mars in the 10th, near the MC, opposite n/Neptune; she will promote and push her long-held views as the best path forward for France.

Now, we come to some complex and interrelated factors with our asteroid.  t/BZ509-t/Neptune-7th-square t/PoF-opp-n/Jupiter;  Le Pens current dream and vision runs counter to the historical place that France has held in Europe.  n/BZ509 squares t/Jupiter-n/Asc.; her position about future opportunities is met with resistance among those not in her party.  Her message may not resonate beyond her current supporters.  n/PoF at the Desc. opp-t/N.Node;  Rousing words directed to others about the future of the country is indicated.

To see how this might work out, let us look at her election day chart.


This Advanced chart hasn’t changed too much in three days, yet there are changes.  n/PoF is now on the Desc. angle; Le Pen will have a strong effect on this day’s voters.  t/MC continues to close on t/Mars; Le Pen’s remarks will become stronger and more strident.    Asc. conjoins t/N.Node, this is still a close aspect pattern.  Le Pen will have a strong message on her vision of France.  n/Neptune-IC-square-n/Venus; Le Pen’s vision will appeal to a portion of the electorate; how big a portion is the question.

We will now look at t/Moon, t/Sun, t/PoF.  t/Moon opposes n/Pluto-n/Uranus, squares t/Saturn.  The public resonates with the part of her message that things have changed for France in this modern world.  The conflict with concrete facts and caution when making big changes may or may not reveal the weaknesses in her arguments.  t/Sun is slowly approaching her n/Sun in a square aspect; Le Pen’s image and portrayal of the country may seem a bit ragged to many.  t/PoF passes her n/MC, squares t/Uranus and n/Saturn;  her attempts to disrupt the status quo (the typical presidential image) is met with resistance.  With the approach of t/PoF to n/Mars, we may find her message builds up in harsh words and proposals from the political parties.  Since there is no election activities and speeches allowed in the hours leading up to the election, it is only what others report and comment on her that can affect the election results.

Who is in, who is out?

From these charts, and as a distant observer who knows only what he reads about France, I believe that Macron will not make the final cut.  Le Pen will do a bit less than what the polls have suggested to this point, her message will impress the public less now than weeks ago.  She is likely to make the cut.  Melenchon will do far better than his position a few weeks ago indicated.  His age, his charm, and his more mainstream messages will likely carry him into the top two, past Macron.

What will happen in two weeks.  Further posts will review that event.   Dave.





































About dadsnook

Dave has been exploring cyclic astrology since the mid-1970's. CYCLIC astrology utilizes both Return charts and planetary-pair cycles for short-term prediction. These practices and nine years of archived material are available for study or reading at A new book, Personal Prediction ISBN 978-9-615-63033-5, has been published and the MC-Solar Cycle technique is now supported through a recognized software provider so that all students and practicing astrologers can apply these techniques for their own use. Recently, Dave has been exploring a new charting format:, transiting Moon to natal Sun Return charts. These moon-sun returns show how we can maintain or deal with change in our lives. A book, Personal Moon-to-Sun Returns 2 has been released in 2015. Contact Dave for details at Dave is a retired business systems analyst and automation systems engineer, enjoys woodcarving and tarot in addition to astrology.
This entry was posted in Moon-to-Sun Returns and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

One Response to France: A Debate, A Shooting, and An Election

  1. Rohan Menon says:

    It might be interesting if you revisited these charts, now that the French elections are over.


Comments are closed.